Interviews
MMATorch Interview: Bellator CEO Bjorn Rebney on 2012 Summer Series, Paul Daley, Brett Rogers, King Mo, and much more
Jun 22, 2012 - 6:45:05 PM MMATorch Interview: Bellator CEO Bjorn Rebney on 2012 Summer Series, Paul Daley, Brett Rogers, King Mo, and much more

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By: Rich Hansen, MMATorch Columnist

Bellator Fighting Championships CEO Bjorn Rebney spoke with MMATorch's Rich Hansen this week at length on the organization's summer series, several recent signings, and much more. That conversation is below:


Rich Hansen: You are a promoter by nature, so I'll start this by letting you go into full-fledged promoter mode. Tell me about (recent signee) Shawn Bunch.

Bjorn Rebney: Well, Shawn Bunch is a guy that really... If you follow wrestling, if you're a hardcore wrestling fan here in the US and you're watching what's going on from an elite world-class perspective, Shawn is right up there at the top of the list. He was basically a shoo-in for the Olympic Team. He was a medal hopeful. Say what you will about what happened in Times Square when they had the wrestle-off, but a lot of people felt like he should be on the Olympic team.

Ben Askren and King Mo Lawal came to me and said that this kid is explosive, he is dynamic, he is powerful, he is at the very highest level from an athletic perspective, and we think we can do what we've done. We think he can do something conceivably even better. So you should develop this kid. You should work with him and go through a development process with Bellator. Put him on the Spike.com shows, let him grow in the sport. But they stressed don't let this kid get away. He is just a spectacularly talented athlete.


Rich Hansen: This is the first time you've signed a fighter who has zero professional fights. Is there any trepidation for you about that?

Bjorn Rebney: Not really. I have such trust in Askren and in Mo. I mean we talk between the three of us on a really consistent basis, multiple times a week. And they just vouched for him. Ben said, "Dude, you took a chance early on me, I only had a couple of pro fights when you signed me, and five fights later I was your world champion." I took a chance on Mike Chandler, and he only had a small collection of fights under his belt, now he's one of the top 155 pounders in the world, and submitted Ed Alvarez to win the title. (Askren and Lawal) were both of the opinion that Bunch is that type of guy. I mean Mo spoke incredibly heartfelt about what he felt Bunch could accomplish.

We have 25 to 27 shows next year. We've got a lot of space on undercards to get somebody developed. Over a year long period, a kid like that could get seven fights with us. We're going to develop him and we're going to see where it goes. But when you've two guys who have accomplished what those two guys have accomplished, speaking the way they did about (Bunch), you give it a shot.

We've never signed a guy who's never had a pro fight before, and I know the saying as well as anybody: "Everybody wants to be a mixed martial arts fighter until they get hit in the face."


Rich Hansen: Not me. I don't want to be.

Bjorn Rebney: (laughs) Well, you and me both. I like jiu-jitsu, but I'll take a zero on the knees to the head. He's a very, very talented and explosive athlete. The reality is this: I don't think there is a better combat sport on the face of the earth than wrestling to transition into MMA. I think we've seen it with the likes of countless different fighters. He has a lot of potential and we'll see if that potential gets realized.


Rich Hansen: What is the status of Bellator getting on TV in the United Kingdom?

Bjorn Rebney: We've got some amazing broadcast platforms throughout Europe right now. And we're doing really well on a number of those platforms. The sad point for me, and I'm more disappointed than anybody, is that we have yet to be able to secure a big time, large-scale distribution partnership in the UK. We keep signing these great fighters. I mean, Paul Daley is going to be fighting for us in July. The interest is there, the excitement is there. There are hardcore spectacular MMA fans there. We just have yet to put together the TV alliance in the UK, and it's incumbent on me as the CEO and chairman of this company to do it. I'm working on it diligently. Our partners are working on it diligently.


Rich Hansen: Do you have an ETA in mind for when this could happen?

Bjorn Rebney: I don't have an ETA. We're working on it like crazy. We want it to get done.


Rich Hansen: Is there an internet based solution in the works for UK residents to watch full Bellator cards online?

Bjorn Rebney: There might be. That is something I would look at if I am unable to solidify a couple other relationships. But not as of yet. And it is too bad; I apologize to our UK fans. I feel badly about it and I am trying to remedy the situation literally as we speak.


Rich Hansen: I want to ask you about Paul Daley and Brett Rogers, who might be the two highest profile signings since Eddie Alvarez and Hector Lombard.

Bjorn Rebney: How about King Mo Lawal?


Rich Hansen: Of course, King Mo as well. Other than Ben Saunders and King Mo, there haven't been a whole lot of guys cut by Zuffa that you have signed to Bellator. Do the Daley, Lawal, and Rogers signings signal a change in philosophy as far as going after veterans with a profile? Were the signings spurred on by Viacom, or did these signings happen from the same processes that were in place before Vicaom came on board?


Bjorn Rebney: Look. I would have signed Paul Daley and King Mo Lawal at any time in our organization's history. They are amazingly explosive, dynamic fighters with huge personalities, who I think will become major superstars in this organization. Those are guys I would have signed at any time. But I don't think that it's unusual that you're going to bounce back and forth for a certain amount of fighters. I mean, Shawn Jordan was just announced to co-main event an upcoming UFC card. We let Shawn Jordan go about nine months ago, we cut him from Bellator. There are just guys who are going to come out of this organization and go over there. There are guys who are going to be in that organization who are going to wind up over here. Semtex is one of my favorite fighters in the world. King Mo, since I saw him come out of his pro debut against Travis Wiuff in Japan, and he did the whole walk-out with the king outfit and had the girls with him and the whole thing, I knew this was a captivating and crazy character. They stuck a microphone in front of King Mo and asked him what he gets most nervous about. And his answer was that he was worried that the girls he would be walking out with aren't going to be super-hot. He's this crazy over the top charismatic character who also happens to be one of the greatest 205 pound fighters in the world. There was never a time in this company's history when I wouldn't have signed the Daleys and the Mos. I mean, they make way too much sense and I think given that there are only really two worldwide organizations in MMA right now, you're going to see some of that bounce.


Rich Hansen:  Well, I also asked you about Brett Rogers. And you conspicuously didn't mention him, so let's talk about Brett Rogers a little bit. Two questions: 1.)  How much was Viacom responsible for his signing, and 2.) Do you think his name value really trumps the fact he's still just 1-4 in his last fights and did jail time for being convicted of beating his wife?

Bjorn Rebney: You know, Brett's situation was a real anomaly. Brett's management came to me about three months ago and started pitching me Brett. Initially, we were not going to sign him. And they just stuck with it, and they kept saying, 'Look, this is a guy who has really changed the direction of his life. This is a guy whose wife has forgiven him. He is with his wife. He's with his kids. He's intentionally stayed away from any kind environment that can give rise to problems. He's delivering newspapers at three in the morning to try to keep his family in their home.' He's kind of seeking and searching for forgiveness. And you know, after having a series of conversations with them, I made a transition and agreed to get on the phone with Brett. I talked to Brett about what had happened, and where he was going, and where he viewed his life to be headed. Say what you will, but I was raised by parents who kind of spoke to the issue of forgiveness in certain situations and giving people a second chance. So we agreed to give him a second chance. Will that second chance manifest itself into him becoming a totally different person? I don't have any idea. I don't really know. But I do know that I heard from his management. I do know that I talked to Brett at length. I do know he's taken a lot of steps in the right direction, based on having done something that was pretty horrific and bad. And we'll see where it goes.


Rich Hansen: Does Rogers have a clean slate with you, or is he facing an 0-2 count?

Bjorn Rebney: You know, we gauge a vast majority of what happens at Bellator based really on what happens inside the cage. I think that given Brett's situation and given what he's done of late, I think that he comes into (Bellator) with a great opportunity. Where he takes that opportunity is really up to him. If there was a step back on the outside of the cage, he would be hard pressed to stay with this organization. Based on what I've seen since his management started pitching us on the opportunity months ago, well, we're giving him a chance. Hopefully Brett is able to make the most of it.


Rich Hansen: Let's take a look forward to Bellator's summer series, Bellator 71 in West Virginia in June, Bellator 72 in tampa in July, and Bellator 73 on August 24. Tell me a little about the light heavyweight tournament which kicks off on June 22.

Bjorn Rebney: With the Mo signing we made a commitment to light heavyweight, where we are trying to stock light heavyweights to build that division. I'm really happy with what we've done from 135 up to 185. I think we have some work to do at 205 and 265, but this is the first step in that direction. Rich Hale has looked spectacular the last two times in the Bellator cage. He's got two knockouts, and I think he's fought a combined fifty two seconds in those fights. Ed. Note:  Interview was conducted shortly before Hale pulled out of the tournament due to illness.  There is a lot of talk about Emanuel Newton out of northern California. Atilla Veigh. Zelg Galesic is going up from 185 to 205. He was killing himself to make 85. He's been a wickedly exciting fighter who has just grown out of the weight class. He's fought for Pride and for Dream and a lot of top organizations in Japan before that scene kind of came apart. There are some very talented fighters fighting for us this week. I don't think there's any prohibitive favorite, but we'll see where this thing goes at 205. It's going to be an interesting breeding ground to see who gets to fight M'Pumbu, and ultimately who goes in as champion when Mo makes his premiere in January. We've got good meat on the bone at 205. With as much strength as we have from 135 up to 185, it's really just incumbent on our team to stack 205. In a perfect world a year from now, and as we get into the Spike launch, 205 and 265 are going to be as deep for us as (our other divisions).


Rich Hansen: Bellator 72 in July features Bryan Baker versus Karl Amoussou in the welterweight tournament for the right to fight Ben Askren. Also on that card Paul Daley is fighting an unnamed opponent. Is there any chance that could be Douglas Lima, just to make the whole fight world happy?

Bjorn Rebney: (laughs) I don't think that Lima is going to face Daley in a welcome back type fight! I think that might be asking a little much, and I think there is surely great potential that Doug Lima, who is a flamethrower, and Paul Daley, who is a flamethrower, could face each other in a tournament finale coming up on Spike.


Rich Hansen: Daley's definitely going to be in a tournament, even if he loses in Tampa (in July)?

Bjorn Rebney: Absolutely. This is long-term with us. My hope against hope is that Paul is going to be able to achieve the level of success and greatness that I've always anticipated he could achieve, and finish out his career with us.


Rich Hansen: A couple weeks ago I asked one of your PR guys if there's any possibility of you moving the date of Bellator 73 because that's the day of my daughter's second birthday, and I really don't want to get divorced in order to watch 73 live. So, what's the chance of you picking up and moving to August 17 for me?

Bjorn Rebney: (laughter) You know, I will absolutely talk to our network partners, because they are usually pretty understanding when it comes to kids and birthdays. So, I'll see what I can do.


Rich Hansen: I sense a tinge of sarcasm there. But seriously, Bellator 73 features Pat Curran vs. Pitbull Friere. Is this the most talent that will ever be in a Bellator cage for one fight?

Bjorn Rebney: I don't know. I mean, look. I know a lot of people didn't give Mike Chandler much of a shot against Eddie Alvarez. There was a lot of talk about Alvarez being one of the best in the world at 155 at the time. I thought Chandler was a freakshow. I thought Chandler was a phenom monster, and he proved that he was by submitting Alvarez. But in terms of pure ranking, these are two guys who are kind of universally accepted to be amongst the top five in the world at 145. It's sure one of the best fights we've had in terms of two guys who could compete with anybody in the world. I think if everybody in the world at 145 pounds or lower started throwing punches at each other, Pitbull, Curran, Jose Aldo, and maybe one or two other guys would be the last guys standing.


Rich Hansen: Which divisions are going to be contested in season 7 this fall, and which champions can we expect to see defend their belts?

Bjorn Rebney: Oy. Um, we haven't finalized everybody who's going to compete across all the weight divisions coming up in the fall. Obviously, 170 and 145 will play a role in the fall without question, and so will 155. A couple more (divisions) will be rounding out as well. And then in world title defenses, boy we've got so many of them lined up at this point. I mean it's going to depend on timing for how we're going to get them all laid out. By the time that gets done you're going to have 135 ready to go.  Either Nogueira or Galvao are going to be fighting Dantas. At 145 you've already got Straus lined up to fight the winner of Curran versus Pitbull. At 155 you've got the Chandler and Rick Hawn fight. And at 170 you're going to have either Karl Amoussou or Bryan Baker fighting Askren. At 185 you'll have a world title fight with Shlemenko versus Falcao. At 205 you're going to have Christian M'Pumbu fighting one of these eight guys that are going to kick off on Friday. So there is a lot going on in that fall season in terms of world title fights.


Rich Hansen: How is Blagoi Ivanov's recovery going?

Bjorn Rebney: Well, I don't know if you've kept up on what's been reported of late, but some of us pray to certain gods, and some of us don't, but I will tell you that if you aren't a believer in miracles, this is sure a story to look up. I mean, the guy was in a medically induced coma for two months. His kidneys had failed. His doctors were all but guaranteeing that he wouldn't wake up, that he wouldn't come out of it. And literally over a four day period not only did he wake up and come out of it, but was able to talk to the media. Unbelievable. I mean just like one of those things that makes you shake your head and just say WOW! That is one of those crazy twists that you just are awful thankful occur. He has an amazing amount of rehab in front of him, but the fact that he is alive, the fact that he can communicate with family, the fact that he can function, by all accounts he has suffered no brain damage (from) this whole episode, is just shocking. He's been amazingly cool and amazingly positive, and it warms your heart. That's where he is. I don't even pretend to know or want to even think about his potential of competing in sambo or competing inside a cage. I'm just wickedly, wickedly thankful that he's alive.


Rich Hansen: How much did it hurt to lose Hector Lombard to the UFC?

Bjorn Rebney: You know, I try not to get too terribly emotionally tied up in this, and don't make emotional reactions in this business. Hector had been with us for four years. He was one of the first athletes I ever signed. I'm personal friends with him. I think he's the best 185 pound fighter in the world today. I think he will be the next UFC Champion at 185 pounds. I'm relatively pragmatic in these situations. The UFC has a pay-per-view model. Bellator has a free (cable) tv model. I looked at the forty-plus page contract that the UFC put in front of him, which I had the right to match, and recognized very clearly that the only way that deal could be monetized for them would be to put him on pay-per-view, and to get him there as quickly as humanly possible. So, we're not a pay-per-view based company, that's not where the majority of our revenue comes from. It comes from television licensing and our partnership with Spike and international television and sponsorships etcetera. From a pragmatic perspective it was not a shock to the system to see that deal. They desperately needed some help at 185, and Hector Lombard is the Mike Tyson of mixed martial arts today. He's a spectacular one-punch knockout artist. It didn't come as a huge shock. I'm a big fan, I like him a lot, I wish him nothing but success. But the reason we're here as the #2 player in the space today and still growing at an exponential rate is because we made good business decisions; not because we made emotional decisions based on my desire to have one fighter stay with us over the 170 fighters that we promote.


Rich Hansen: If Lombard goes 3-0 in the UFC right away and wins the title, that obviously makes Bellator look very good. Conversely, do you think if he goes winless and gets cut that reflects poorly on Bellator?

Bjorn Rebney: I don't know. I searched long and hard, and the only guy I was ever able to find who gave him any kind of fight was Alexander Shlemenko who went five rounds with him. We never had... from a stylistic perspective he's a very, very difficult matchup. The guy has an amazing base. His jiu-jitsu, which we never really got a chance to see, is shockingly good and shockingly fast and powerful. He's a very aggressive submission finisher. His judo is obviously Olympic caliber, so his base and balance are unbelievable. His punching power is... frightening. I just don't know who beats him. Maybe conceptually a Chael Sonnen type of character? Who's got such wickedly good wrestling and the ability to just completely blanket you and take you out of your game. Maybe? But how do you get Lombard off his feet? How do you dislodge him? It's one thing to dislodge Anderson Silva, which is not easy by any stretch. Anderson is a wickedly talented fighter. But I don't think anybody will argue that Silva has Hector Lombard's balance or base. But I don't know how you get Lombard on his back. I mean, nobody in our organization ever got him on his back, and we put him in against some talented guys. I don't know how that happens. I do know what kind of chin he's got, and I also know what kind of punching power he's got, and I know what kind of speed he comes to the cage with. So, I don't know. I don't think there are three guys on earth who can beat him, so he won't go zero and three anywhere. But it sure will be interesting to see. As a fan of MMA, and I know it sounds counter-intuitive to say it, but I'm going to love to watch Hector Lombard fight Anderson Silva. That will be a fun fight to see.


Rich Hansen: Twelve months from now, who is signing Eddie Alvarez's paychecks?

Bjorn Rebney: I have no idea. It really depends. I'm thrilled with the 155 pound champion that we have right now. We've got one fight left with Ed. We've got until I think November left on his contract. And then we have a matching period and an exclusive negotiation period as well. I like Ed as a human being. I'm not going to drag it out. If we can come to an understanding that makes sense to Bellator and makes sense for Ed, perhaps we'll re-sign him. If we can't come to that, then we'll probably just do one more fight with Ed and move on and let him go to investigate any opportunity he wants to investigate. I've got an affinity for Ed Alvarez; he's been great for this organization. We'll see how it plays out. It's got any number of ways. He could be with us and I'll be signing his checks, or he could be in the UFC, or conceptually he could be fighting somewhere else.