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From MMATorch.com Interviews By: Jamie Penick, MMATorch Editor-in-Chief
On tonight's most new episode of the program, Sport Science host John Brenkus once again plays human crash test dummy to showcase something the show has tackled before, the rear naked choke. But this time there's a twist, as Brenkus and crew have updated this test to find what he says is the "definitive snapshot" of what happens when a fighter is choked unconscious. To do that, they employed the services of a fighter with one of the more lethal rear naked chokes in the game, "The Prodigy" B.J. Penn. I had a chance to talk to John this morning to find out what it's like to be choked out by a professional fighter, as he's now done three times with Penn, Gina Carano and Fedor Emelianenko, and also just what happens when a fighter loses consciousness due to a choke. Jamie Penick: Throughout the show you've done segments with mixed martial arts, showcasing fighters from Quinton "Rampage" Jackson to Fedor Emelianenko to Gina Carano, and most recently Brandon Vera, Frank Mir and now tonight B.J. Penn. What is the most surprising thing you've found from MMA fighters when compared to the other major sports the show covers? John Brenkus: What's most interesting to me about mixed martial arts is how smart you have to be to be to be successful in the game. You have to incredibly athletic, you have to be very disciplined. To train in these different aspects of martial arts you have to apply a very high degree of intelligence to be very, very good. Every guy we've had on the show really exhibits that intelligence. It's really impressed me how smart you have to be to be very good. JP: On tonight's MMA Live show, you're testing the rear naked choke once again with B.J. Penn. You've done similar tests with both Fedor Emelianenko and Gina Carano on past shows, and you've been choked out now by all three of them. Are you a glutton for punishment? Brenkus: (laughs) I'm not that smart. What we wanted to do [with B.J. Penn] is sort of raise the bar. When we did it with Fedor [Emelianko] and Gina [Carano], we were testing for an aspect, but with B.J. we wanted to really raise the bar and use the most technology ever used to test the choke out. We had literal E.E.G. readings, that measures different brainwave activities and blood flow in and out of the brain. Electrical activity going through your muscles, all kinds of things to really give you the definitive snapshot of what happens when you pass out. That's something that we did not previously do with Fedor or Gina, and the data that we got from it is pretty stunning. JP: What is the most surprising data you got out of the segment with Penn? Brenkus: What's most interesting to me are two things: one, the memory lapse of genuinely not remembering anything. What's fascinating is you literally feel the constriction on your neck; the next thing you know you're talking. It's like a seamless movie, like someone edited out that five seconds of your life. The state that the brain goes into, it's a state that resembles a delta coma. It's sort of the brain's way of using minimal power to still keep you alive, because it's a defense mechanism. Choking for sure is a very, very, very serious business and shouldn't be tried by anybody. We only did it because it was under intense supervision. We had paramedics standing by, a special mixed martial artist. There was very little risk for me because we had everything standing by, but for everybody else, I did it to show you that the brain goes into a state, that's called a delta coma, which could be fatal. It could be very, very dangerous, and if you stay in that state too long you won't come out of it. So it's something that's not to be taken lightly and not something to be done for fun, it's a very serious thing. JP: It really showcases the importance of not only tapping out, but a referee getting there in time if a fighter does go out. Brenkus: 95% of all fights in the UFC, if someone has a rear naked choke on the fighter will tap out. The other 5% when people pass out they're only out for a couple of seconds. If people are goofing around with their friends and you get choked out for an extended period it could be fatal, and people have died from it. The test that we did we proved that the brain goes to a place where it won't revive itself if you stay in that state for too long. No one has ever gotten hurt or seriously injured because of a rear naked choke in the UFC, that's because the rules are such that they will prevent that injury from ever happening. JP: We saw just two weeks ago on Bellator on Sport Science's old home at Fox Sports Net where Eddie Alvarez choked Neer out cold, but let go of the choke as he hit the ground. Brenkus: There's a lot of pride in the sport. As B.J. said, 'it's a lot better to tap out and be able to stand up than to have someone come and scrape you off the canvas.' JP: You talked about having more sensors and everything for this segment tonight with Penn, is that one of the biggest benefits of moving to ESPN? Do you have more resources available being on a much larger network? Brenkus: We have a larger platform in ESPN, and we have a partner that is the best partner in sports. There's a reason why they're the 'Worldwide Leader in Sports.' So the show is just better by the mere fact that it's on a bigger platform. You have more resources and better access to everything. The show on Fox Sports it's fantastic, we've been very fortunate that we've been able to raise the bar with ESPN. JP: You've run segments now on all three episodes of MMA Live on ESPN 2, is that something you're planning on doing as a weekly segment or did you just happen to have it planned for the first few weeks here? Brenkus: We're planned out to do another segment next week with Rampage vs. Rashad. We're doing a whole feature on that. It definitely was the plan to get integrated into MMA Live on ESPN, so we're rolling out something once a week. JP: How did the show come about and how did you get interested in trying to showcase all of these things that take place in sports? Brenkus: My partner and I own a production company called BASE productions. We've been around for 18 years and have done hundreds of hours of television. Sport Science comes originally from a show we did called XMA: Extreme Martial Arts on the Discovery Channel, which spawned another series called Fight Science, which was on National Geographic. Fight Science became Sport Science. My partner and I really have a love for sports, we're huge sports fans. I played sports in high school but I was never going to be an elite athlete. The question that remains is 'how do elite athletes do what they do and how do they compare to the average person?' So we're out to really answer the biggest mysteries in sports in a way that the general audience will be entertained and educated at the same time. JP: With all of the sports that you've showcased on the show, what's one of the most surprising things you've come across on the show? Brenkus: Every test yields something that's surprising, otherwise we wouldn't have done it. A test doesn't make air unless it surprises us. I think last week's segment with Frank Mir and the torque that's involved [with the armbar and kneebar]. When you think about Frank Mir, he's 250ish, can bench 450 lb., can punch with 200 lb. of force, but when he has you in a kneebar and after he's extorted thousands of pounds of force, he's only extorting 60 lb. of force of torque on the knee. It sounds like a really low number, but when you think about it that's enough force to break the average humorus bone. It's just interesting to me how an MMA fight can be decided by tens of pounds of force instead of thousands of pounds of force. JP: The show in the past has highlighted the nervousness of sitting there getting ready to be choked out, showing you having a panic attack before going out against Fedor. How was the experience with B.J. Penn? Brenkus: It's pretty nerve wracking. You don't wake up and say, 'I can't wait to get choked out today.' Even this episode [tonight] with B.J. my heart rate was almost 130 just sitting still. I was clearly anxious about it, and for good reason. It's a scary thing to go through. In the words of B.J. Penn, 'dude, that's not something people normally do, and you need to be pretty brave to want to do it.' For me, the reason why I end up saying 'yeah, this is a good idea' is because I want to show everybody that this is what happens in a fight. On one hand it's a submission move that looks brutal, but in the reality under the rules of the UFC it's not a particularly dangerous move and it's far safer than a knockout. On the other hand I wanted to show that if your brain achieves this delta coma state, that can be very bad and it can be fatal. It's something that's very real. In the sport of mixed martial arts there's nothing to fear because of the rules, but in life there's plenty to fear and so you don't want to mess around with it. JP: Well, John, thanks for taking some time out to talk to me today and we look forward to the episode tonight Brenkus: Great, I really appreciate it, thanks so much. The Sport Science segment with B.J. Penn airs Thursday night during MMA Live on ESPN2 at 1AM ET/10PM PT. For more information on the show, visit the showpage at ESPN.com Also, you can follow John on Twitter at www.Twitter.com/Sport_Science. © Copyright by MMATorch.com |
